About This Episode

STRONGER THAN STRESS: 10 SPIRITUAL PRACTICES TO WIN THE BATTLE OF OVERWHELM WITH BARB ROOSE

Episode 139

Special guest Barb Roose is the author of “Stronger Than Stress: 10 Spiritual Practices to Win the Battle of Overwhelm.” She’s also a speaker,  literary agent, and Bible teacher. According to her website, “She is a real woman who’s experienced deep anxiety, parenting challenges, family addiction trauma, and long seasons of walking by faith in unanswered prayer.”

Lifestyle medicine has six pillars: restorative sleep, nutritional eating, physical fitness, minimizing harmful substances and social connectedness. But when we talk about stress, it affects all of them. It’s an overarching theme to health. 

Barb:  We know that stress is out there and we talk about it openly. “Oh, I’m so stressed.” Like if you talk with people, stress is going to naturally come up. And so there’s this social acceptedness that there is stress. The reason why I wrote the book and the reason why I want to engage in these conversations is because you and  I are aware of the damage.  And so it’s a situation, particularly as women, we just live with stress. And so it is trying to elevate the hidden damage of chronic stress and to convince women not to set themselves on fire to keep everybody else warm.  

The challenge is these days, as women, we want to protect what we love. We want to fix what’s broken. We want to get things on track. I call it the good Christian woman syndrome. We will sacrifice ourselves trying to be everything to everybody.   

We keep little people alive or a spouse.   We found keys every day so that a spouse could get to work.  In some ways, there was a season where so much relied upon us, but there are those practical moments where we have to remember that there is a God. And it’s not us.   

Dr. Vickie: That is so , absolutely true. There is a God and it’s not us. And I think that’s the thing. When we take on all that responsibility, we learn to depend on ourselves  and then we think we don’t need God until our whole lives start unraveling.

Barb: I use spinning spinning plates as a metaphor for  all of the things that we have happening in our lives. And I recognize the reality that there are some of you listening and you’ve  got spinning plates. The big picture of the book. is helping us recognize that God can actually take care of us and our spinning plates so that we can take care of ourselves.  

Dr. Vickie: Practically speaking, how does that play out?  

Well, my favorite chapter title of the book is, “Get Off the Cross, Honey. Somebody needs the wood.” Sometimes we can’t just convince people that they need to change.    They have to feel their need for change.   And what I want to do is create that feel for the need of change by using Jesus’ words in Matthew. And so in this chapter, I cover Jesus’ words and he says, “Come to me, everyone who is weary and heavy burdened.” And, I think that pretty much everyone listening is going to say, yep. I am  weary and heavy burdened. In the original language,  weary was all about feeling like everything was on you. That self-sufficiency, that’s what the weariness is that Jesus was talking about, and then carrying heavy burdens. That is about all of the expectations, all of the duties, all of the to-dos and the do mores. And so if you are exhausted by all of that, overwhelmed, Jesus doesn’t tell you, you’ve got to read your Bible  five days a week. He doesn’t say you’ve got to pray for 45 minutes a day. He says, “Come.” It’s an invitation. And what he wants to give us is rest. He wants to care. The work has to be done, but He wants to teach us how to live in him. So that we let Jesus carry the weight as we do the work of our lives.  

When I think about that verse, like the word picture, Jesus goes on to say, take my yoke upon you. And yoke always felt like this really antiquated word, but yoke still exists. And most of us know that a  yoke is where they have one animal that is  basically harnessed to another animal and the visualization is that there is a more experienced animal that helps teach the younger animal the way to go.

Now, Vickie, I don’t know about you, but when I am left to my own  devices and I’m trying to live apart from God,   I am going to wander. I’m going to stomp on things that I shouldn’t stomp on. I’m going to go too fast. I’m going to reckon the things. And so when Jesus says. Take my yoke upon you.  what Jesus essentially is saying, let me put  my arm around you, around  your shoulder, because essentially stress has us in a choke hold.

It is a choke hold that is strangling us. We are often, Vickie, sometimes we try to run ahead of what God is doing in our lives. Can I get an amen?  

And so Jesus, he’s putting his arm around us and I find it very interesting that on a shirt, the shoulder area of the shirt in construction is called a yoke.

And so Jesus is putting his arm around our yoke and he’s saying, learn from me. Let me teach you. He’s saying, let me teach you the right pace to live. Let me teach you the path  to follow. Let me guide you so  that you’re not trying to run ahead and figure things out on your own.  so Jesus, who has the experience, who is our peace, is teaching us the pace so that we don’t live stressed every day.  

I love that picture of pace because I want to be productive. I want to do things. I want people to be able to depend on me. I want to fulfill my purpose. And it’s just as bad for our health for us to live without intentionality and without purpose. And so the point is not just to say, Jesus, take the wheel. I’m just going to sit back and do nothing. It’s let’s walk this out together.  

We have these things that God has called us to do. We, and women, if you’re, or whoever’s listening, men and women, we  should have purpose. We should have kingdom  oriented goals. We should have people we’re investing with. Even if you’re retired.

I heard this years ago. This amazing story of a man. He was a neurosurgeon and he developed a spinal condition and after like a dozen surgeries, he was medically disabled.  That  man ran Bible study groups, on Zoom people around the world from his hospital bed in his home. So he still had work that he had to do.  We all  have work no matter where we’re at.  

But what Jesus wants to make sure of is that our work is not wrecking us, that we are not running in chaos from sun up till sun down. He wants us to experience his peace.  And the peace is only found in him.  

Dr. Vickie: So true, and peace is really lacking. I feel like so many of us live on a merry go round. And sometimes we’re busy without actually accomplishing anything that is of eternal value.  

Barb: Well, yeah, because the urgent over the important. We’re just playing whack a mole every day, trying to do the to do list. And again, we’re doing it with the best of intentions. But part of why I wanted to write this book on spiritual practices, because  these are the practices that Jesus wants to teach  us so that our days have meaning and value. Because the last thing we want to do is get to whenever the end of our lives are, and us wonder if we made a difference. The way of Jesus is the way to help us make a difference.   

Dr. Vickie: Resting in Him, peace in His methods, and a plan and a purpose  for our lives. It’s all built on trust. I think so many times we think, but this is the way I want my life to go. So I’m pushing, pushing, pushing. When God’s saying, come to me, slow down. That’s, that’s not my plan and purpose for you. And we just, we have to rest in that. We really do. And rest has always been a four letter word for me.  

Barb: There is a spiritual practice. that incorporates rest. But if I can share a personal example, I recently had some blood work done. I’m a woman of a certain age now. I had gone into the  doctor to have blood work done so that I  could start hormone replacement therapy. And so she wanted me to have an extra panel done because she wanted to make sure I had all the options available. This was about a month ago. I go in, I get the blood work done and I, it’s the day before my book party celebration.   So I have four interns who are in town, who’ve flown in, and I’m hosting a retreat for them. It was all planned out. No stress. I had my book launch party at my church that next day, all planned out, interns, no, no stress.  That morning when I woke up the day of the party at 7. 30am, the  first message I had was from my mother, who lives two  hours away, who’s my emergency contact and said, the hospital lab has an emergency phone, they need you to call them. And Vickie, your listeners won’t appreciate this, but you will. It was an emergency because my hemoglobin was only 5.6.

Dr. Vickie: You were running on empty. 

Barb: So here’s the thing, no symptoms.  So at 8 a. m. that morning, I get this phone call that says, You are dangerously anemic. And what are you going to do about it? And I was like, well, okay,  the day goes on and there were things that just kept popping up. One of my kids had a sick dog. Another kid was throwing up in the bathroom. I had signs that weren’t delivered. I had an ex boyfriend  that I hadn’t seen in three years surprise  show up to the book launch party!  And so I share all of this because there are going to be unexpected things that happen.

But what I have learned over the years of the spiritual practices  is what it looks like to keep Jesus’ peace at the forefront of my mind. Now, did I feel Some pressure because I was like that’s a lot to happen to somebody in one day . And  that’s not everything that happened But I learned through the spiritual practices One of the cornerstones in the book is surrender. Most of our stress as women is because we are trying to stay in control of everything .

The title of the chapter is the Surrender Prayer and it’s “God, I can’t. But you can,  and I will let you.” And so I had to really focus on that surrender prayer. And then there’s another practice of gratitude. It’s in the celebration chapter. I want to keep a spirit of gratitude.

I’m not ignoring  everything that’s happening. I hadn’t had a symptom. I had been sleeping fine, working out full energy, all of this. And I was like, Lord, I  have no idea what’s happening here. My body is not doing great, but God, I feel great. And so I practiced gratitude. And so throughout the day, I was incorporating those spiritual simplicity when my day got chaotic. I was like, okay, Barb, let’s stay  focused. You can’t do everything, but if you can  only do one thing, what can that do? And so these practices help us to stay focused on what the most important things are, but we have to learn how to use them consistently over time.   

Dr. Vickie: I would say in advance of a stressful moment, you obviously had some practice using those tools when all of that came at you. And I used to have women all the time that would come to me during their pregnancy and they’re like, oh, I don’t want an epidural. I don’t want an epidural and I was like, then you need to go to the classes.

You need to practice the breathing techniques when you’re not in pain because all that stuff goes out the window the first time that contraction hits and it’s the same thing with our spiritual walk.  You knew, okay, this is what I do. I surrender. I always say the place of perfect peace is the place of perfect surrender and you said that prayer But what I pray is whatever Lord just whatever. You also posted this morning on Facebook  the verse from Isaiah 41:10. It’s one of my favorite verses and the reason is that when I got really really sick  I kept seeing that verse everywhere, but it was out of the message translation and it says in message translation, “Don’t panic!” Our natural response to a stressful event is panic, because like you said, we’re not in control.  

Barb: When I was a pharmaceutical sales rep, one of the drugs that I sold was a very popular antidepressant. And I remember how valuable it was for me to just understand our body’s response to stress. And so I cover that at the beginning of the book,  but I keep it at a very high level, but it is  helpful for me to remember that in my natural state, my body will react to what my brain perceives as threatening. And the way of Jesus,  when Jesus becomes our peace and our perfect peace, we feel less threatened by the world around us. And when we feel less threatened, our body is not going to react into  fight or flight as often. And for me, that  was really helpful to keep in mind, because there are going to be, and hear me, there are going to be situations in life when we should be stressed. If the doctor calls and says that your kid has type 1 diabetes, you’re going to be stressed. And so stress was actually created by God as a protective indicator to tell us that we’re reacting  a certain way to our environment. But chronic   stress, when you’re stressed all of the time, afraid all the time, anxious all the time, irritable all the time, That’s a spiritual issue, because you have what I take from 2 Timothy 1:7, the spirit of fear. When everything is making you anxious and afraid, that is something that Jesus wants you to address. Does that make sense?  

Dr. Vickie: It makes perfect sense to me, and I love the way that fits into lifestyle medicine because we have all of the neurochemicals  that get released. We that fear area of our brain, like the amygdala and all of the neuronal synapses that can actually get wired or rewired because when you’re worried and you’re anxious, you literally create a neural  pathway that’s like a rut in your brain. You just  keep going down that same rut. And so you have to do something to shift that. And we talk about stress management in lifestyle medicine, but there’s no magic wand to make it go away. And even Jesus doesn’t just make it go away. You have to have these spiritual practices to come to Him.  

Barb: Right. And I love that you talked about the neuropathways and neuroplasticity. And so I want to share a story. I was in the eighth grade.

Vickie and I have met, actually Vickie and I have a picture  of us standing together because I am  overly tall, which meant that when I was a kid, they immediately said this girl should play basketball. So I was in the seventh grade. I went out for the basketball team. Partly because I wanted to play basketball, but also because that’s where all the popular girls were at on that team. And I wanted to be popular. So at basketball tryouts, I could run really fast, but, I wasn’t that good of a dribbler and   I couldn’t shoot all that well. So I didn’t make the team. And I’m devastated. Well, the seventh grade coach, her name is Miss Bednarik, still remember her name. She said, Barb, you actually need to be stronger. She said, you’re dribbling skills, you just don’t have good muscle coordination or shooting. It’s  because you need strength. And so she told me when the kids would go to the weight room. And so Vickie that following Tuesday, I showed up at the weight room at my junior high.  I was the only girl in this weight room filled with stinky, sweaty junior high boys. And, this is the eighties folks. We didn’t have great  ventilation. We did not have windows. It was basically boys after school and their Old Spice had worn off by lunchtime.   And have there I was, and I had a choice that that I had to make that day. Was I going to keep showing up? And so I started learning how to lift weights.  As this only girl in these pot bottomed glasses, two giant front teeth, And I am oversized  and I’m there with the scrawny boys and every Tuesday and Thursday. I kept showing up and I had to learn how to lift the weights. And then I would struggle and they would help.

And that is practicing. We’re not going to be good at it at first, but what makes it matter, is that  we keep showing  up.

If you just have one minute to read your Bible then read for one minute. The practice isn’t valid just because you sit there for 20 minutes.  Just do it for 1 minute. If you can pray for one minute,  pray that one minute as often as you can.  God can do something with that.  Other practices are Sabbath.  Maybe you can’t get to taking a whole day but can you take just 2 hours to just sit and  rest? Absolutely. But the most important value of practicing is to keep showing up. And so I kept showing up all that seventh grade year, and I got stronger. And I made the eighth grade basketball team. But more importantly, Vickie, I’ve been lifting  weights since that girl was in the seventh  grade. And now that I am over 50,  part of what the doctor’s office told me when they called me last month,  they just said, it appears that the rest of your overall health is so strong. That’s why your body has been covering for you this whole time. 

Dr. Vickie: Now I can smell that junior high locker room.  That is such a powerful memory. I can smell it from here.   

Barb: I can still smell it. And it’s been 40 years. Whew! It was rough.

Dr. Vickie: I think about the spiritual disciplines, you call them spiritual practices, but  practice always, always, always requires discipline. So I am super excited about your book and I would love for you to tell up our listeners where they can find you, where they can order your book.

And I’m going to look and see if I can find that picture because I’m standing on the hearth, and you’re standing on the floor, and you’re still taller than me, and that’s not saying much because I’m not very tall. 

 Barb: We made quite a sight together. My friends, I have to say, we looked as cute as cute could be, but definitely, one of us is, is, is super  action packed. That’s me saying that you’re short: Action packed. And then one of us is just real, real tall.

There is actually a Bible study that goes with the “Stronger than Stress” book,  I am primarily a Bible study author. So for those  of you who do love Bible study, there is  a six week Bible study with video that you can access. Both book and Bible study are available anywhere you love  to purchase your books and Bible studies. 

You can do them separately, what I recommend is that you get either a book club with some friends, or a Bible study group with some girlfriends so that you can all talk and journey together.   

Dr. Vickie: Yes, there’s so much power in together.  

Barb: There is, there is. And, if women want more information or maybe they just want to check things out, uh, you can check over to barbroose. com. I have a link there where you can check out the book and the Bible study group.   And on top of that, you can actually watch the  first video session, so that you can decide whether you want to share that with some friends and say, Hey, do we want to get a group together and talk about how we can live less stressed with more peace every day?   

Dr. Vickie: That is so awesome. Well, I appreciate you coming and talking to us about stress management. And I think it just fits perfectly with lifestyle medicine. I always say that that’s one that you just absolutely cannot do without Jesus.   

Barb: Amen. I love that wisdom. Love it.

 Dr. Vickie: Wow, what words of wisdom from someone who has such a passion for following Christ. And I hope that that will make you want to dive into God’s Word a little bit more. And if the Bible is unfamiliar to you, take a peek for yourself, because there is a peace that passes understanding, and there is a rest that is possible through Jesus Christ.

And I would challenge you to check it out for yourself and see. But Barb really didn’t tell  you all there is to know about herself. Go to her website.   You’re going to want to know more about her. It’s barbroose. com. I’ll put a link in the show notes. 

 This is an edited transcript of this episode. 

BarbRoose.com

Stronger Than Stress Book

Stronger than Stress Bible study

About This Episode

My personal health journey – a special edition

I’ve been doing this for about nine months now. And I think it’s time that I shared a little bit more about how I got here, and maybe that’ll help you on your own health journey. I’d like to think about where you are now, where you’ve been and where you want to go. So let me tell you where I’ve been.

 I started my OBGYN practice when I was 30 years old. I had a daughter who was just starting kindergarten, and a little boy who was about to turn 2. And my practice ramped up really fast, And back in those days, drug reps often brought lunch to clinic, and they didn’t bring healthy stuff. They brought things like pasta with alfredo sauce, and they brought a lot of cheesecake. And I love cheesecake. Especially turtle cheesecake with all that caramel sauce over it. Mmm.

It’s delicious.  And so every time that they brought dessert, I indulged in dessert. And my life was kind of busy.  I began to gain weight. And I developed migraine headaches. And I wasn’t sleeping very well. And of course you can’t sleep well when you’re an OB doctor anyway, but that’s a different story.

And so I really felt terrible. On top of that, every single time it was somebody’s birthday at the office, we pot lucked and the potlucks weren’t much healthier than the drug rep lunches. And they always included birthday cake because after all we were celebrating. But every celebration isn’t my own special occasion.

But I didn’t realize that. So I just plowed on through and next thing you know,  I gained about 15 pounds. Between ages 30 and 35, I felt worse than I had ever felt in my entire life. And I looked it too. I was miserable. My clothes were tight. I didn’t have any energy. And I just felt bad.

And I discovered a book called, What the Bible Says About Healthy Living, by Dr. Rex Russell, M. D. And so I read this book and it talked about how we should eat things in their natural state. And back then we didn’t really use the term whole foods, but eat food in its natural state. And so what Dr. Russell said is that butter is better than margarine, and that vegetables are better than processed foods, and that things that are refined have lost their nutrients, such as white rice, white flour, and sugar. And so I went on a pretty radical diet and I changed my eating habits completely. And the three things I cut out were white rice, white flour, and sugar.

And not only did I lose the weight, but my migraine headaches went completely away. Now, I wasn’t pure about it. I would obviously indulge every once in a while. And I learned just about how many bites of something I could take before I’d get a headache. So, I would pre decide what I was gonna do if there was a potluck at work.

And there was cake, or there was that turtle cheesecake that I could never resist, and I would tell myself, Four bites. That’s all you get. Four bites. And most of the time I would stick to that, but every once in a while, I’d just finish the whole piece. And you know what? I’d get a migraine headache. And so, that was a good feedback thing for me to say, You know what? That’s a headache on a plate. I don’t even want it. Now, I didn’t follow what Dr. Russell recommended exactly, He recommended very small intake of meat, but I just kind of ignored that part and the dairy part he recommended butter. So I really lathered the butter on and I did switch to whole wheat. I bought a mill and I started milling my own wheat and making bread. 

I discovered a lady named Sue Becker that does bread baking and I had a whisper meal. You just put whole wheat in the top of it and, Grind it up and you get fresh whole wheat flour. And I made bread with olive oil and honey and it was delicious. And so I did that for many, many years and taught my kids to eat healthy.

And I’m so thankful for those foundations because My kids have pretty good eating habits, and I think those early years of us eating more whole food was good, even though we ate a lot of vegetables out of the can. We did, because we were on the go, go, go. But we ate vegetables, and we didn’t eat a lot of junk food.

I followed most of the principles from this book. One of the things he said is that God gave us all of these laws for a clean diet. And then Jesus came and set us free from all those laws, but God knows our body. and he knows how they function best.  And so I followed this diet for many, many years and felt great. I got really fit in my forties and I started exercising after I lost that weight. I felt so good. I wanted to exercise. And so I started cycling and I rode my bike all the time. And then, when I turned 50, my whole world turned upside down.

I developed a rare autoimmune disease called Myasthenia Gravis. And it came on pretty suddenly, and I had a severe case of it. I could walk across the room, but I couldn’t walk very far. And I couldn’t use my arms very much either. And I was very disabled. And to treat me, they put me on a lot of different medications.

I had surgery, I had infusions. And, one of the medications made me severely diabetic, so I was on Januvia, Metformin, and insulin for the diabetes. And, to some degree, I think I thought, well, pfft, I ate healthy all those years, what good did that do me? Now, I only paid attention to nutrition, diet. and physical fitness and I treated rest like a four letter word and I did not sleep and I’m not sure if that contributed to my autoimmune disease or not but there is some data that shows that that is a risk factor

I kinda threw my hands up in exasperation and said well I’ve eaten healthy all these years forget it I’m just gonna eat whatever I want but because of the diabetes I couldn’t do that. Now it was steroid induced diabetes And I was on prednisone, so my face was as big as a moon. I gained about 8 pounds is all I gained, which is pretty good for that high of a dose of steroids.

But it was all from the collarbone up. I mean, it was awful. And to keep my blood sugar from going up too high, I found some things that I could do, like eat nuts, that kept me feeling full, without getting a lot of sugar and unhealthy carbs.

And so I was able to avoid an excessive weight gain on the prednisone. And after I got off the prednisone, the weight came off, the diabetes went away, and I went about my merry way eating whatever I wanted to, because the migraines went away with menopause, and like I said, my health was kind of tanked anyway.

I thought, what difference does it make?  

And then I had some routine blood work done, and it showed an elevated cholesterol, which runs in my family. Everybody in my family has it. I’ve had it since I was in my 20s. And it also showed an elevated hemoglobin A1c. And so when I went to see my doctor, he looked at me and he said, Are you willing to make some radical changes?

And I said, I will do anything to not be diabetic because I knew how terrible I felt when I was diabetic.  And he recommended that I read a book called, How Not to Die, by Dr. Michael Greger. And so I read the book and I started implementing the things that he suggested. And lo and behold, my hemoglobin A1c, normalized and my cholesterol went down as well.

And so a little bit after that, I discovered the entire field of lifestyle medicine and the six pillars, which are nutritional eating, and it is plant based, and physical fitness, social connectedness, stress management, restorative sleep, and minimizing exposure to harmful substances. And so I became board certified in lifestyle medicine in December.

My lifestyle is pretty good; overall I feel pretty good for 60 and I exercise. I have had a few other health scares recently. And so I decided that I was going to get really strict. And you can probably guess that I read a book. Because I always read a book. And so I read Dr. Neal Barnhart’s book, The Power Foods Diet. And I started doing what he recommended in that book, and boom, like that I lost eight pounds. Did I need to lose 8 pounds?

Yeah, I did. I mean, I was pretty comfortable in my clothes, and I had been the same weight for, gosh, so many years. But I had developed some belly fat after menopause, and it melted away in a very short period of time following that diet. And he’s vegan, and there is a difference between vegetarian and vegan.

Vegan is to protect the environment. and to make sure that animals are not mistreated.   And you can eat a vegan diet that’s very unhealthy. You can eat a Pop Tart and that is vegan, but it’s not healthy. Vegetarian means that you only eat vegetables and you don’t eat meat. And I’m not a vegetarian. I eat plant based.

And what that means is I get the majority of my calories from whole foods that are nutrient dense. that are plants.  Do I eat meat? Well, sure. I eat meat, just not very often. And originally, when I started doing this, I was cooking for myself and for my husband. And so, for example, I would make stir fry, and then I would do a little chicken for him to add.

Or, you know, whatever dish I was making, I might do black bean tacos or mushroom tacos, and I’d do a little ground beef for him. And then he said, you know what, I think I want to try one plant based meal a week. And so we started having one plant based meal a week. And then as my cooking got better, because my cooking has definitely got better, in the plant based department.

I learned to make meatballs that don’t have any meat in them and they’re delicious. And so now he said,  you know, I think I could do two nights a week that are plant based. And I never said anything. I didn’t say, Hey, I want you to eat like I’m eating. But I feel really good now. Am I a hundred percent healthy?

I’m not, I have issues, but I want to preserve my health as best as I can as I age.

And I want to feel good and be able to do all the things that I love to do. And so, I hope that this helps you know that you’re not going to do it perfectly. And there’s a lot of conflicting information out there. And one of the things I do on this podcast is try to help you sort through the noise. The podcast is really growing and I appreciate everyone who takes time to listen.

I’m offering a couple of new things. Number one is the Healthy Looks Great On You Lab. Think of the podcast like the classroom, because we always go to mini medical school and learn something.

Think of the Healthy Looks Great On You Lab as the field trip. It’s where we go out of the classroom and actually do things that make a difference, because that’s my goal. I want to give you information and motivation and inspiration to make changes that make a difference.  So I hope you’re on my email list so you get an invitation to the Healthy Looks Great On You Lab.

It’s going to be so much fun. And if you’re like me and you struggle with sleeplessness, I have a webinar coming up that will be free. on sleep. It’s called the Sleep Solution. I’ll put a link to sign up in the show notes. Registration is open now  and I hope you’ll join me for this important information. 

And since we didn’t go to many medical school today, let me take you behind the scenes and on a day in the life of a doctor. Every morning, I got up, got my kids fed, got them off to school, sometimes took them to school, went to the hospital, made rounds, checked on anybody that was in labor or did surgeries that I had scheduled, then went to the office and saw 40 patients a day, and I never got through before 1 o’clock, so when I did eat, I was rushed, I was just cramming something in my mouth real quick, and go, go, go, go, go, until I got off in the evening, and then home to eat dinner.

Then football games to watch my daughter cheer or track meets to watch my son pole vault. Then we’d come home and go to bed and I might get called out two or three times during the night  to deliver a baby.  And we’d get up the next day, whether I’d slept or not, and do it all over again. 

I’ll be honest with you, it’s not an easy life.   But it is so worth it. I always say, nothing compares to the feel of newborn baby feet, except the look in a mother’s eyes when she touches them for the first time.  I loved being an OB GYN doctor, And I got some unique insight into a woman’s soul. 

I consider it an honor and a privilege. And I consider it an honor and a privilege to educate you about lifestyle medicine. I hope you’ll stick with me on this journey. We’re going to have a great time. Sign up to get my emails. Sign up for the sleep webinar.  There’ll be more to come. And I hope to see you in the Healthy Looks Great On You lab. 

Because healthy really does look great on you. 

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About This Episode

DO YOU GET ENOUGH PROTEIN IN YOUR DIET?

Episode 137

Do you get enough protein? There are protein powders, protein shakes, and protein bars. But how much protein do you actually need? Then there are high protein diets. Are those good for you?  Are you getting enough protein in your diet? Maybe too much stay tuned to find out if you’re getting the right amount.

It seems like we’re just bombarded with this message to make sure we get enough protein and yes, you definitely need enough protein. But chances are you get plenty.  The average American diet is 16% protein. Well, that translates to 80 grams a day. If you follow the recommended 2000 kilo calorie diet. On top of that, most Americans eat protein that is packaged with fat. And that definitely has some negative health consequences. 

Today, we’ll discuss the amount of protein that’s right for you and the best sources

We do need protein if you don’t get enough protein, you can have brittle hair and nails. You can feel hungry all the time or your muscles can be weak. Your immune system can be compromised, so you get sick a lot. You can even have trouble thinking or changes in your mood, or stress fractures in your bones.  

So let’s go to mini medical school for a review course. There are three essential macro nutrients that our bodies absolutely need to function. Fat carbohydrates and protein. And gosh, when I say those three together, I think the protein hype comes in from the bad rap that fat and carbs get. Remember one gram of protein is four kilocalories.  Same for carbs and fat is nine. But you do need all three macros and like everything in lifestyle medicine, it requires balance.  And on top of the macros, there are lots of micronutrients, but here’s the deal protein is never a solo act. I mean, you can’t really just eat a protein. 

Proteins are macromolecules. Well, that just means they’re big old suckers made up of long chains of amino acids, and you may have heard them called building blocks. There are 20 different amino acids and we need every single one of them to live. but your body can make 11 of them. So nine of them are essential in your diet. A complete protein has all nine of them, Most protein in our diets are not complete. But not to worry your pretty little brain about that. We will talk about how to get a complete protein.

Amino acids are kind of like Lego’s, they fit together to make proteins, but unlike Legos, they don’t make you cuss when you step on them. And like Lego’s for mothers of little boys. Amino acids are everywhere and you can snap proteins together to make muscles, hair, enzymes, and antibodies. They break stuff down in chemical reactions in the body and they’re important for DNA replication. 

We need protein for every organ in our body to function like it’s designed the heart, the brain, the skin, the immune system. And it’s especially important for the musculoskeletal system. Adequate protein intake helps build repair and maintain muscle. And that’s not just for bodybuilders who want big ol honkin muscles because as we age. Staying strong becomes even more important. Protein may play a role in appetite control. And that’s why a lot of these diets focus on high protein for weight loss. And we’re going to talk about that in a few minutes. But not getting enough protein can lead to hair loss, skin breakouts and breakdowns, weight loss, loss of muscle mass and weakness.  This is most likely to happen in people with eating disorders or the elderly who have an inadequate caloric intake. Now let’s get to the bottom line. How much protein do you need? 

 You’re going to need to know how much you weigh in order to do the math and the simple answer is that you can multiply your body weight in pounds by 0.36 and determine the minimum number of grams of protein you need. Of course, there are situations where you need more  like how old you are, whether you’re a man or a woman. Your activity level and pregnancy.  Okay, active adults need 0.6 to 0.9.  Older adults need a little more too. They’ve got to maintain that muscle mass. So 0.8 times, your body weight in pounds. And the reason older adults are at such risk again, is because of decreased appetite, decreased calorie consumption, and the importance of staying strong. So you don’t fall, or you can open a jar and all the other things you need to get done in a day. Okay. What about athletes? Well, they do need more. 1.2 to two. So let’s look at that just a little bit different way. And for those of you who are on my email list, I’ll send this out in print because it’s so much easier to look at that way. 

Sedentary adults need 10 to 15% of their calories from protein. Active adults need 15 to 25%. And athletes should consume protein as 25 to 35% of their diet.  And with all the hawking about protein, you’d think we’re all deficient. But on average Americans get  the amount of protein they need. In general, if you’re eating enough calories. You’re probably eating enough protein. Can you get too much? 

Well, yeah, too much isn’t good either. In fact, men aged 19 to 59 typically get more than they need from chicken eggs and of course burgers and the steak.  But what about that meat eating man who pumps iron and sweats on the treadmill, you may be surprised to learn that even athletes do not need a supplement to get enough protein, they need more calories to fuel their workout. But they can get that protein in food. Isn’t that such a beautiful design.  Now I mentioned in kind of a fancy way that protein contains nitrogen. So your body needs fluids to process nitrogen and too much protein can make you dehydrated. It strains your kidneys and people who have kidney disease need to be really careful about finding that balance between not enough and too much.  And protein, especially from animal sources can upset your tummy and cause either constipation or diarrhea. 

So maybe you were worried about getting enough protein and maybe you’re worried about getting too much.  But let’s talk about protein powders that people add to shakes. The most common ones are whey, pea, and soy. And they’re  processed, they’re  sweetened, And they all contain a lot of other ingredients. Whey protein is made from milk protein. It has flavors in it and sweeteners and preservatives and emulsifiers like lecithin and thickeners like xanthan or guar gum. And some of them add vitamins and minerals. 

What about soy protein? Well, it’s made from soy protein concentrate. It has natural and artificial flavors, sweeteners, emulsifiers, like soy lecithin, preservatives, and thickeners, and sometimes vitamins and minerals.  What about pea protein? It’s made from yellow split peas. It also has flavors, sweeteners, emulsifiers, thickeners, preservatives, and sometimes vitamins and minerals.

You know, with all those sweeteners, flavors, emulsifiers, and thickeners, what if you just got your protein from food? Isn’t that a great concept? Now I totally get just putting powder into a shake because it’s faster. It’s easier. And it’s just so convenient. Soon I’ll have a recipe ready for a protein smoothie that tastes delicious and doesn’t have all of that extra junk in it. It’s going to be available through the healthy looks great on you lab. Right now it’s by invitation only. But if you’re interested, make sure you’re on my email list. I’ll open it up soon to everyone. 

 And here’s the deal. Variety is the secret to getting complete proteins. So we always say, eat the rainbow. That means eat food with different colors, oranges, purples, blues, greens, reds, yellows and everything in between.

I mean, who doesn’t love a colorful package?

And that brings me to a term I want to introduce you to. Protein package. Hello protein package, it’s nice to meet you.  Because remember, you can’t eat a protein by itself. So basically, a protein package refers to who the protein is hanging out with. 

Let’s make it specific and go back to that pile of chicken that was on my Korean rice bowl.  One cup of chicken breast has five grams of total fat. Which is another one of the essential macros. 1.4 grams of it is saturated and 1.7 grams is monounsaturated, and 1.1 grams is polyunsaturated.  It has a total of 43 grams of protein. Based on my weight and activity level, that’s about half of what I need in an entire day.

Chicken breast is a lean protein source, so a lot of people eat it on the Mediterranean diet. Now, edamame is made from young, green soybeans. And they are so good for you. And they’re very versatile as well. They have 188 calories. compared to 231 for a cup of chicken breast. They have 18. 4 grams of protein, which is not nearly as much as chicken.

 But I can guarantee you that I’m going to eat more than one time a day,  but here’s the real kicker.  Edamame has 8 grams of fiber. And fiber is super important if you’re trying to lose weight, or you want to maintain gut health. It’s good for your immune system, and your digestive system, and your body in general.

In  fact, edamame is a complete plant protein. Remember, I told you a complete protein has all nine amino acids. And it’s rare to get a complete protein in plants, but edamame is the package that does it. You can add it to salads, you can put it in stir fries, you can put it in soup, you can just eat it as a snack. It also has lots of vitamins and minerals in it like folate, vitamin K, and iron. And for your heart, it contains healthy fats that include omega 3s and omega 6 fatty acids. And those can actually help reduce bad cholesterol levels. And remember, cholesterol is not found in plants and fiber is not found in animal products. 

 If you get most of your protein from animal products, you’re likely getting a lot of fat with it. And we all know that too much saturated fat can increase the bad cholesterol in your bloodstream. That’s the LDL cholesterol. And that can lead to heart disease. Saturated fat also causes inflammation throughout the entire body. And that ups your risk for just about everything. On the other hand, plant based proteins, which come from things like soy or edamame, nuts and seeds and beans and grains, those are lower in saturated fat, but they’re high in the all important fiber, 

Here are some good plant-based sources that are complete as well. Besides that edamame or soy is buckwheat, hemp seed, and quinoa. Look for ways to add these to other things in your diet. I’m going to have more specific information on that in the healthy looks great on you lab coming soon.  

The bottom line is, more protein isn’t better, better protein is better. So we should focus on quality and not quantity. And, we should get our protein from food. Because all of those protein powders that people add, those are considered supplements, and it is big business.  And that’s probably why protein is being marketed to us as if we all have a shortage.  And even if we do, we should get our protein from food. Whole food is best. Now, let’s go ahead and compare plant protein to animal protein. 

Let’s start with animal based proteins. This includes chicken, turkey, beef, pork, fish, eggs, dairy products like milk, cheese, and yogurt. All of those contain protein.  The most complete proteins come from animal sources. And they’re actually more likely to contain complete proteins because animal proteins have all nine of those essential acids. So that’s a good thing, right?

It is.  And they often have other nutrients like vitamin B12, which isn’t found in plants, as well as iron, which you need to maintain a good red blood cell count and keep from being anemic. As well as omega 3 fatty acids, especially in fatty fish, like salmon. 

Now, the more processed a meat is, the less healthy it is for you.    Red meat is worse than poultry. And all animal protein is packaged with its good old buddy fat, which we already talked about.  Now, comparing that to plant based proteins,

that’s better for your heart. They’re rich in fiber, which we talked about, but what we didn’t mention before was antioxidants. Plant protein sources are excellent sources of antioxidants, and those are the cleanup crew in the body that get rid of cells that can cause damage and disease. They can even lower your risk for heart disease, stroke, as well as cancer.

Now, the problem is, there aren’t too many complete proteins in the plant world. But, I gave you the secret earlier, do you remember what it is? You don’t even have to go to mini medical school, you learned about this one in elementary school.  The rainbow. Eat the rainbow. If you eat a variety of plants, You’ll get all the amino acids that your body needs. 

So, don’t just eat one kind of plant, don’t just eat spinach all day long. I mean, Popeye did have big muscles, but,  you should also eat grains, and beans, and legumes, and nuts, and seeds. 

If you’re eating a completely plant based diet, you  need a B12 supplement, and you do need to be more mindful of your protein intake. Because it’s definitely more of a challenge, especially if you’re active, and I sure hope you’re active.

Before we wrap up, I want to mention one more thing, and that’s timing.  It’s really better for your body to get protein spread throughout the day, ,  instead of eating a big steak for your evening meal, and getting it all at once. Our bodies don’t really store protein. Like they do fat. So you only need as much as you need for one day. 

Generally speaking, you should get about 15 to 30 grams of protein  per meal and spread it out throughout the day. There are some studies that show if you eat more protein in the morning, it decreases hunger and cravings throughout the day and that can help with weight management.

While I’m on the subject, I want to mention high protein diets for weight loss. Studies show that they are effective in the short term. So, think of them as a kickstarter, not a way to live, because in the long run, they’re not good for your cholesterol, and they’re not good for your heart.

If you missed the episode comparing the different diets, I’ll put a link in the show notes to which diet is healthiest, or you can go to my website and search for it.  

The most important thing is, don’t buy into the marketing schemes.   Just make sure you’re getting enough. And remember, if you’re using a protein powder, it’s got a lot of other junk in it, and it’s really considered to be a protein supplement. You probably don’t need it. You need to eat more protein in your food. So let’s look at the top plant foods that contain protein.  One of the highest sources of protein in the plant world is one of my favorites.  Did you say edamame? No, that was a trick question. It’s lentils. Remember, I love lentils. And one cup of red lentils has 18 grams of protein.  In addition to all that fiber and phytonutrients and vitamins and minerals.  And remember, no cholesterol.

Now, edamame is second on the list at 17 grams of protein, and another favorite of mine, black beans, comes in at 15 grams of protein. Moving on down to some nuts, almonds contain about 6 grams, peas are 5 grams, and even a baked potato has 5 grams of protein.  You know what I do?

I put black beans on top of a sweet potato. It’s delicious. I’ll share my recipe with you sometime. Spinach has five grams of protein as well so don’t forget those leafy greens.  Now how does that compare to animal protein? Well, we already talked about chicken and we talked about a cup. But even just three ounces of steak has 25 grams and it has all that cholesterol, saturated fat, and no fiber in it.

Salmon has 20 grams of protein for just a 3 ounce serving, and it’s better than red meat. And an egg has 6 grams, so you can have a cup of spinach, a cup of peas, and get nearly the same amount.  Now, since protein is being marketed to us as if we all have a shortage, let’s talk a little bit more about a comparison of plant protein to animal protein.

There was a study published in 2020 in the Journal of the American Medical Association Internal Medicine Edition that suggests that where you get your protein really does matter. In fact, they looked at almost half a million people over the age of 50 who got their protein from either plants, red meat, or eggs. And they watched them for 16 years and guess what? People who ate mostly plant protein instead of red meat protein had a 13 to  24 percent lower risk of dying from all causes.  That’s impressive. In this particular study, the effect was even more pronounced on men. For every 10 grams of plant protein they ate per 1, 000 calories in their diet, they had a 12 percent reduction in their risk of death. And if they ate more, likely that number would go up even higher.  

 Remember, better protein is better. Plant protein is healthy.

 And healthy looks great on you.

About This Episode

3 Easy Steps to Reach Your Health Goals

Episode 136

Do you want to get healthier? Do you want to maintain or improve your health? Setting goals is crucial. But what if you struggle to follow through?  Then you’re in the right place. Stay tuned to learn three easy steps to reach your goal to get healthier.

Here we go again. You’ve decided you want to get healthy. Maybe you want to start exercising or eating better, lose a few or maybe even a lot of pounds. You want to sleep better and feel rested and energized. So you get started on your journey to get healthier.  And before long, or maybe not so long., you fizzle out. Or maybe you never even got out of the starting gate and you’re thinking, “Good grief. What is wrong with me that I can’t get it together?”

What if I told you you’re doing it all wrong. There is a way to succeed and it’s not hard.  Don’t believe me. Well, let me prove it.  I’m going to show you three easy steps to reach your goal to get healthier.

First let’s talk about what it means to be healthy. What does get healthier mean to you?  Seriously, I’d like for you to camp out on this question and don’t just listen to my voice. If you can, I would encourage you right now to push pause on this podcast and brainstorm some thoughts about what it means to you to get healthier and then come back.

I could give you a textbook definition of healthy. It just literally means to be in good health. That isn’t much clearer, is it? So, while I’ve got you on the hot seat answering questions, let me ask you this. How would you know if you are healthier?  Hmm, that brings it into a little bit clearer perspective, doesn’t it?

You see, if you can’t define it, and you can’t measure success, then it’s really not a plan. It’s an idea. It’s a hope. You know, I hope my blood pressure gets better and I don’t have a heart attack or a stroke. Or, I hope I can stay on a diet and fit into that dress that’s too small. Or, I hope I can sleep better and feel rested. 

I hope so too, but I’m pretty sure it’s hard to achieve goals that are so broad and so vague. Because, if you don’t know exactly what you mean by get healthy, then I’m confused about what your goal is and you really aren’t clear either.  I know. I know it’s hard. It’s hard to stay on a diet or be faithful to an exercise program or have good sleep habits or manage your stress or be intentional about meaningful connections and cut back or eliminate your alcohol intake or sugar or junk food. 

So what is it,  specifically what is it, that you are trying to accomplish when you say I want to get healthier?  And I hear a lot of people say, well, I want to be able to keep up with my kids or my grandkids so that I can play with them. And other people say, I don’t want to be like my mom. She was confined to the recliner for the last 10 years of her life due to poor health. Those are great motivators.  But they aren’t really specific goals either.

Why do you want to get healthier? Because once you figure that out, you can use it to motivate you to make changes that lead to better health.

Too many times we think we just don’t have enough motivation, or persistence, or willpower, or self discipline to achieve our goals. Or we get sidelined by ever present stress in our lives. Or we just slip back into old habits and give up.  But what set us up for failure in the first place was we didn’t know exactly where we were going. You have to have a clear destination in mind, a clear goal in the first place if you’re going to achieve success. 

If you’re going to get from wherever your current health is to wherever you want it to be, you’re going to need details. Lots of them. So start with nailing down the destination.

Do you want to get your blood pressure normal? Do you want to be able to run a 5k? Do you want to lose 5 pounds? Do you want to sleep through the night? Get clear and get specific and then get more specific.  Lifestyle medicine has six pillars.  Nutritional eating, restorative sleep, physical fitness, Social Connectedness, Stress Management, and minimizing exposure to harmful substances. Pick one to really work on and start drilling down to get to the place you want to end up in.  And yes, they’re all interconnected. If you want to lose weight, then not only do you need to focus on nutrition and physical fitness, you also need to focus on your social circles and your restorative sleep and managing your stress. They are interconnected, there is no doubt, but you likely will not be able to make sweeping changes all at once. 

 You need a specific destination and you need directions on how to get  from here to there. And that can’t mean I want to get healthier so I’m going to clean up my diet and exercise. If you don’t know exactly where you’re going, I guarantee you, you will never arrive. And that’s what happens to most people. And here’s the deal, when it comes to health, who arrives? I mean,  Health is a journey with mountains and valleys along the way and twists and turns and detours you didn’t expect.

If you set unrealistic goals, you set yourself up for failure and disappointment. And then you’d say, I tried, I tried, and it didn’t work. And really what you tried to do was never going to work.  So it’s important to set a goal that you know that you’re absolutely confident you can reach. 

And I know you may say, Oh, Dr. Vickie, I’ve tried and failed every time and I have no confidence in myself at all.  Then start small.  Nope, smaller than that.  Nope, even smaller than that. 

Now, if you’re someone who has seen success in making changes, changing your identity maybe, and seeing yourself as a healthy person and developing healthy habits, Then you might be able to set a bigger goal and take a bigger bite.  But if you’re disgusted with yourself because you always quit, then do a reality check and set a goal you can reach.

Set a goal that wouldn’t surprise you if you reached it. It wouldn’t even surprise your friends or family if you reached it. 

Once you have a clear goal, a clear destination, you know where you’re going, you have a clear plan on how to get there, the next step is to define the steps. 

 So what are the tiny steps you need to start taking? 

You have to do some prep work too.

What is the next tiny step you need to take? Do you need to wake up 10 minutes early every day and take a brisk walk? I’m talking about heart rate at 140, arms pumping, feet pounding the pavement.  Or do you need to do some prep work and clean out your freezer and cabinets and refrigerator and get rid of all the ice cream and cake and cookies?  do you just need to power down your TV and computer and smartphone an hour earlier so you can get some more restorative sleep?

Do you need to put salt substitute in the salt shaker? Do you need to add more fiber to your diet so you don’t get hungry and eat everything you can get your hands on in the heat of the moment?  And by the way, if that’s your answer, I have a free download on fiber and where you can find it.  And so this would probably be a good time to tell you that I offer lots of resources to my listeners who are on my email list.

You can go to healthylooksgreatonyou. com to sign up  and I’ll put a link in the show notes.   There’s also several episodes on all the lifestyle medicine pillars that you’ll probably find helpful in helping you get to your destination.

Do you see how specific these steps are and how small they are? They’re not the goal. They’re steps that move you toward your goal. Now you’ve probably heard of the term smart goals, but we’re going to review it anyway, because it’s such a foundation for developing good habits.

S stands for specific, and we’ve kind of harped on that. M stands for measurable. Remember at the beginning I said how are you going to measure that? A stands for achievable. We’ve talked about that as well. R stands for relevant. Like if you’re going to try to lower your blood pressure putting salt substitute in the salt shaker is relevant to achieving your goal. And then T is time bound. Nothing  And I mean nothing motivates me more than a deadline. So give yourself a deadline. If you need to do some prep work and get your pantry cleaned out and your refrigerator cleaned out and go to the store and buy some different healthy foods to stock it with, then do that. But give yourself a deadline. We all need a timetable.   You can actually put this on your calendar. I put everything in my calendar on my phone. If I think I need to eat oatmeal on Monday morning to fill my belly up with some fiber so I don’t get hungry at 10 o’clock in the morning and go looking for a Pop Tart, then you know what? I can put that in my phone on my calendar. Eat a bowl of oatmeal.  Right there on my calendar. I check it every day it’s more efficient and it works better than putting something on your to do list. 

Now, I want to give you a little bit of encouragement.  You need to celebrate your wins.  And you need to mark your progress. And don’t celebrate your win with something that’s contrary to your goal. In other words, if you go a whole week eating only whole food, don’t reward yourself with processed and junk food, but reward yourself and just celebrate, celebrate your wins.

Some people use chips. We talked about in our episode on Unwinding Pain, putting paperclips together. This is an important concept in the recovery world for people who are trying to quit smoking or trying to quit drinking and they celebrate how many days of abstinence they’ve gotten to, 

but here’s the deal. Sometimes you’re going to fall off the wagon, whether it’s having a drink when you had planned not to, or grabbing that bowl of ice cream right before you go to bed when you had sworn off ice cream.  Listen, give yourself a little bit of grace.

And also, understand this. There are unexpected detours on the way, but just because you’re on the detour doesn’t mean you’re not heading in the right direction  And what about accountability?

Yes, we all know how critical accountability is. So if you can get someone in your life to give you accountability. That’s fantastic and you can celebrate your success with them as well.

I have a course called 7 Day Prescription for Change. It has a downloadable workbook and it’s all free. And you get an email with a little bit of homework every day to help you work through some things like ambivalence. You know,  those feelings of I want to do this but I can’t. But I want to do that and those things keep us from changing.

We need to learn a little bit about our own selves and our behavior if we’re going to make changes and some techniques like habit stacking where every single day I know I’m going to. Put on my socks so I can put a set of hand weights in front of my sock drawer and say, I’m not going to open that drawer until I do 10 bicep curls.

Just little things like that, that you connect habits together are powerful ways to help you achieve success.  And if you need accountability from a professional state, then you can visit my website, EquilibriumTelehealth. com. I have a medical practice where I help patients one on one. 

But I believe you can get to wherever it is you want to go, by following three easy steps to get healthier. Number one, set a small, specific, achievable goal that you can start moving towards. tomorrow. Know your destination clearly. Hey, take a picture when you get there. And if you can’t picture it in full color,  keep painting until you know exactly where you’re going.   Number two is start heading there. Identify three very small things that you know you can do every single solitary day to help you move forward. Three little steps. Never, ever, ever stop moving forward. And then when you’ve seen success in those three areas, celebrate it and set three more steps that keep moving you in the right direction.  

Now, number three, and this, we haven’t talked about it yet, but this is the single most impactful thing that will help you reach your goals. This will make more difference than anything else. 

Write it down.  Writing it down  increases your chances for success  by 50%.  I mean, how easy is that?  Just write it down. And better yet, write it down and share it with someone because then you’ve got a little accountability.

 You know, this episode is almost over and we haven’t even been to mini medical school, but let’s step into the neuroscience classroom for just a minute and talk about why writing down your goals make so much difference. 

You see, there is this biological process called encoding. We receive sensory input from our sense of smell, sight, touch, taste, and sound.  And all of these things travel into our brain into an area known as the hippocampus.  And that’s where they’re sort of analyzed and we make decisions about what we’re going to store and what we’re going to just forget about. 

And when we write something down, we’re using another sense. We’re not only using our eyes because we see it, but we’re using the sense of touch because we’re writing it. And if we say it out loud, then we’re adding an auditory component. 

And all of this adds to the importance that our hippocampus attaches to what we’re doing.  And that stores it deeper in our memory. It encodes it more specifically into our brain.

That’s why the smartest people you know always take notes when they’re attending a lecture or some type of seminar.  So get out your pencil and write down those goals, encode it in your brain, and you’ll be more likely to succeed.  Those three steps are a formula for success. Healthy is a journey. It’s not a destination. But it’s worth the time and effort and investment to get healthy. Because healthy looks great on you  

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About This Episode

OVERCOMING JET LAG

Episode 135

You’ve booked your flight, reserved your hotel and packed your bags. So don’t let jet lag, keep you from enjoying all the wonders on your itinerary. In this episode, you’ll learn how to phase shift your circadian rhythm. So you can make memories that last forever. 

It’s kind of fascinating to think about jetting around the globe. We can hop on a plane and be on the other side of the world by tomorrow. Or is it today? What time is it again?  The problem is that our internal clocks. can’t keep up. And it knocks the circadian rhythm for a loop. When your internal clock gets out of sync, it causes jet lag. Which can make us sleepy when we’re supposed to be awake and enjoying our wonderful vacation or lying awake when it’s bedtime in our dream destination. Either way, there are things you can do to lessen the effects.  

Jet lag causes insomnia by the de synchronization of the circadian rhythm. Well, that was enough 25 cent words to cut into your vacation budget, but don’t worry. We’ll go to mini medical school in a bit and learn more. But jet lag causes more than insomnia during the night and drowsiness during the day. It also causes GI upset, brain fog., bad mood and just feeling ick, in general.  And even if you don’t change time zones, it’s hard enough to sleep in an unfamiliar place where there’s light noise to contend with. And it can be made worse if the pillow is too flat or too thick. 

On the other end of the spectrum is daytime sleepiness. You’ve planned all those amazing excursions. And now you’re struggling to stay awake and actually enjoy your trip. Jeez. And don’t forget GI upset.  Mostly it’s decreased appetite and constipation due to eating at times you’re normally sleeping, but some people get diarrhea and that’s never a good travel companion. On top of that brain fog sets in which can make you and everyone around you and a bad mood. Decisions about where to go and what to eat, seem harder. And emotions get the best of you and sabotage your trip.  

So let the adventures begin.  Whether you’ve personally experienced jet lag, have an upcoming trip, Or, just want to live vicariously.

 It’s time to go to mini medical school.  I always like to get started with a definition. Let’s start with circadian rhythm. It’s the 24 hour process that helps our bodies react appropriately to day and night, light and dark as the earth spins on its axis. Normally melatonin levels start to increase when light starts to decrease. 

Ideally, this happens about two hours before bedtime. And the term for this is dim light melatonin onset, or DLMO. This secretion in melatonin causes a drop in core body temperature, which in turn makes us a little groggy.  This signals our body that it’s time to get tucked in beneath the covers and get some shut eye.  The rise in melatonin continues and it hits its max level after about seven hours. This peak coincides with the lowest level of core body temperature. And these two things happen about three hours Prior to wake up time. In the morning, the melatonin levels drop to zero and our core body temperature starts to warm up, and this starts the wake cycle, which lasts about 16 hours. The sleep wake cycle can be modified and the internal clock can be reset.

Guess what the most powerful tool that resets the circadian rhythm is?  It’s bright light. In the natural order of things, the sun comes up, the rooster says cock a doodle doo, the farmer gets out of bed, works 16 hours, and everyone goes to sleep. The cycle starts over the next morning. But then we invented all kinds of things that screwed it up from light bulbs to night shifts, to screens that emit blue light. And that has a huge impact on melatonin secretion, which is what gets this whole ball rolling.

When it comes to light, timing is everything. Let me introduce another term, entrainment. This is our ability to synchronize our internal clock based on external input from the environment.

This makes your body’s physical functions line up with your daily routines to coincide with day and night. And that’s why typically people don’t have the urge to empty their bowels during the night. It’s also why your gastrointestinal tract can be all messed up when you travel.  But other things besides light can help entrain circadian rhythm too, like exercise, meals, and social contact. Think about it. How many times have you stayed up late talking to friends? And then falling asleep when you’re home alone or bored.  Get out your notebook now because here’s the science you need to know about jet lag. It’s all about phase shifting. Either delaying or advancing depending on which direction you’re traveling.

Bright light packs the biggest punch when it shines during what should be night time. Because that’s when melatonin is secreted, remember?

In normal people, the lowest core body temperature is in the evening. So bright light after the low core body temperature, moves that circadian rhythm forward. That’s called a phase advance. Bright light after the DLMO, the dim light melatonin onset, and before the lowest core body temperature in the evening,  moves the sleep wake  cycle backwards.

That’s called a phase delay. Got it? No? Okay. One more time.

Bright light after the body cools down moves the internal clock forward. And bright light after the dim light melatonin onset, but before the body cool down. You moves the clock backward. The problem is that even though bright light shifts the internal clock, this effect is delayed.

So when you fly to a different time zone, your body needs several days to adjust. The more time zones you cross, the more time it takes for your body to naturally reset. And all this talk about melatonin just might make you wonder, Can I take melatonin to help shift the internal clock? I’m so glad you asked.

The answer is  yes, but the action depends on the timing. Melatonin is a phase shifter.  What time of day it’s taken can affect the sleep wake cycle. So, if you take it late in the afternoon or early in the evening, it That causes a phase advance and if you take it in the morning, it causes phase delay. 

Melatonin can also be sedating. The power of sedation and phase shifting is greater when melatonin is taken at a time when the body’s pineal gland is not normally secreting it. That’s why melatonin is more effective for jet lag than it is for sleep at bedtime. 

 We’ll talk more specifics about melatonin doses in a minute. 

   Even without treatment, your circadian rhythm will adjust on its own. Hopefully, that happens before your trip is over. How long will it take? Well, that depends on how many time zones you cross and which direction you travel.  People who jet set around the globe for a living may experience more long term health effects than those of us who occasionally take a big trip.

Typically, it takes about one day to to adjust for one time zone if you’re traveling eastward. So, if you cross more, it takes longer. Westward travel is a little easier and your body can compensate for 1. 5 time zones per day.  Your body’s less confused when you travel west because the days are lengthened rather than shortened like they are when traveling east.

And if you’re wondering why that matters, it’s because Your internal clock is not exactly 24 hours, it’s just a tad more. So stretching out a day more closely matches the natural rhythm. Go west young man, you’ll feel better. 

Now, if you can sleep on the plane, you’ll get a head start, but most of us just nap and wake up with a stiff neck. So, let’s transition to treatment. The goal is to sleep at night and stay awake during the day. So, your internal clock needs to align with where you are instead of where you’ve been. It will happen naturally, but wouldn’t it be nice if you could speed up the process and hit the ground running in paradise. 

Then go straight back to work when you get home. If your trip is shorter than three days, then forget it. You’ll have less jet lag when you get home if you just stay on your home time zone so you don’t miss a beat when you get back. You can try to take a sleep aid at night then power through the day with caffeine but of course there are risks with that. 

But let’s assume you’re traveling for more than three days and you want to treat or prevent jet lag. Treatment depends on which direction you’re going. We will start by focusing on eastward travel, and remember that’s the one that’s more challenging. West is best and east is a beast when it comes to jet lag.

So you’ve booked your flight, hotel, maybe even some dinner reservations in advance,

And now it’s time to prepare to reset your internal clock. For eastward travel, your circadian rhythm needs to advance to the new time zone. Remember, it’s all about timing of light and melatonin. During the times you need to avoid light, you might try a sleep mask. Start three days prior to your scheduled departure, and I recommend just put it on your calendar.

There are even apps you can use. But here’s the prescription. Three days before takeoff, set your alarm one hour earlier than you normally wake up. Get up. Get some bright light exposure. If the sun isn’t up yet, you really want to maximize the effect, you could use a light box.

But try to mimic the time you’ll wake up in your destination by getting maximum light exposure at that time. Then, darken the room and go to bed one hour early. and get that dim light exposure one hour before your new sleep time. Then each day move it up another hour. When you arrive at your destination, be intentional about light.

If you’re crossing three to five time zones, avoid sunlight early in the morning,  but soak it up when you’re up and around. If you’re crossing more than five time zones.

Avoid bright morning light altogether and wait until afternoon to get out in the sun. The idea is to ease into the new time zone. Having said that once your phone changes to the new time zone, don’t think about it. Don’t even talk about what time it is at home. When in Rome, do as Romans do and live in their time zones without saying, okay.

Well, back home, it’s 3 a. m.  Food is important too. Eat a hearty breakfast about 30 minutes after your new wake up time. If you do want to use melatonin, I recommend 3 milligrams. Pack it in your suitcase and don’t take it until the evening after you get there.   I am not a big fan of taking benzodiazepines or sleeping pills, but if you do, Don’t take melatonin with them because it might cause over sedation and impaired ability to think or drive.

 And you might want to skip that glass of wine on the plane too. Because that just compounds the problem. If you’re like me and you’re addicted to  caffeine, you’ll need a jolt  to get you going in the morning. Don’t overdo it, but a couple of cups of coffee or tea when you get up will help you feel more alert.

And if you’re going far, far away and crossing eight or more time zones, then just try to delay rather than advance your sleep wake cycle. Get up and get sunlight first thing in the morning, and start dimming the lights in the early evening.  Let’s talk about going west, and remember, traveling west is easier.

I’ll say it again so you can remember, west is best and east is a beast. The goal with traveling west is to delay the circadian phase. Just try and stay up later and use light to cue your body that it’s daytime and not bedtime. Keep the lights on and get as much sunlight as you can in the afternoon and the early evening.

Keep the lights on until about an hour before you get under the covers and then only dim light. After the new bedtime, avoid bright light. And melatonin doesn’t really help much with westward travel unless you’re going to the ends of the earth on the far side. Then you can take three milligrams at bedtime.

Always try and balance naps and caffeine for optimal effects. And as far as breakfast, the same rules apply. Eat a hearty breakfast within 30 to 45 minutes after wake up time. Eat a complex carbohydrate rich diet two to three hours before the new sleep time. And when you get back home, Melatonin may help you recover.

You can take 0. 25 mg about 3 to 4 hours before bedtime. If about an hour before you’re trying to sleep you’re still wide awake, repeat. 0. 25 milligrams.  This is a lot of information on top of your itinerary and your packing list, so I’ve tried to make it easy with two free downloadable graphics. One for eastward travel and one for westward travel.

This has been a lot of information and you may be thinking, well, that’s really interesting, but would you just tell me what to do? Okay. Here’s what’s on the guide. If you’re traveling east, remember east is a beast. So you might want to prepare about three days in advance, go to bed and wake up 30 minutes early or an hour early. 

If you can do that avoid light in the evening. But get bright light exposure. As soon as you get up. And when you travel, set your clock to your destination time, nap and rest on the plane and be sure and stay hydrated. Then sleep during the destination sleep time when you arrive, you want to avoid early morning light and get that sunlight exposure late in the morning. 

We’re in the early afternoon, you can take melatonin at bedtime. If you need it short naps and caffeine in the morning may help. And while you’re up, stay active. Okay. Remember west is best.

But again, about three days before your trip,  you can delay your bedtime as well as your wake. Time by about 30 minutes. Get your light exposure in the evening, not the morning. Again, set your clock to the destination time and avoid light and screens during what is going to be nighttime. Stay up when it’s wake time, be sure and stay hydrated. 

Stay active. And have a cup of coffee to help you wake up if you need it.

Make sure your passport is up to date and most of all, enjoy your trip. Stay safe and stay healthy because healthy looks great on you.

About This Episode

Unwinding Pain with Bonnie Lester. Episode 134

Chronic pain is not only debilitating, but also isolating. It can cause depression, feelings of hopelessness, and can be very difficult to treat.  Often, doctors only try to manage the symptoms. But Bonnie Lester came up with a process to unwind the pain through neuroplasticity.

When you’ve experienced something, there’s a there’s a huge difference and I often hear from the clients I have my doctor doesn’t know what it’s like to live every day in pain If they’d only know and then when I meet doctors who have had bad backs or bad necks or some other challenge They are more empathetic And more understanding, that’s for sure.

So what initially led to your issue with chronic pain?

Well, I was a 33 year old mom. I was newly remarried. I had a great relationship with my ex husband. We were co parenting, and my new husband was a great stepdad. I just purchased a house in California, driving home one night, a stop in traffic, and a drunk driver plowed into me and shook up my body.

And that my life changed in the blink of an eye.  Yeah, I developed something called complex regional pain syndrome a few months later. That’s a trauma to the nervous system. They at the time back in 1986, they had no idea of what to do with it. They did experiments on me, including surgery that spread the condition and the condition is agony and pain and burning and your skin texture changes.

You have temperature changes where my left hand, my dominant hand was icy cold.  And even though it didn’t feel cold to me, if anyone touched it, it would be icy cold. It would turn red and it swelled. And they did some surgery on me thinking they were going to cure the pain. And it spread that same condition throughout my body, um, all the way down to my left foot.

So what I had at that time was a wonderful doctor who looked at me and said, Bonnie, my mom has ALS and she has to have courage to live with it. And I’m telling you with complex regional pain syndrome, you’re going to need the same type of courage. And that was the best thing he could tell me. You know, because that’s what kept me going.

And it’s only recently that the American Pain Association identified what pain is and it can have an emotional and psychological basis. Not that it’s generating the pain, but it affects all parts of you that way. And when people say, Oh, it’s all in your head, they get insulted that I’m making it up.

But actually, the brain is in the head part of the nervous system, your spinal column and your brain. So in a way, yes, it’s in your head because the actual pain sensations are in your head. You’re not imagining it. So I always tell people, your pain is real.  And that’s, that’s what people say to me. I wish people would understand that it’s real.

had things like old fashioned tricyclics, which are antidepressants, and that was for the nerve pain. And then I also had muscle relaxants. None of that touched the pain. But in 2006,  they said, come on in, Bonnie, you’re a good candidate for high levels of fentanyl. which you hear about nowadays, and Norco, and I was living on six different things like that.

And that’s what I was living on, but it was prescribed, um, it was legal, and thank goodness I had great medical insurance because it’s very, very expensive.  And so I was on it for nine years. And that’s why I say, look at me and say that I look alive because when people hear, you know, most people die, you know, after a year or two, it’s a very dangerous medication to be used the way they wanted me to use it.

And so the way I understand it is, does it even really relieve your pain or do you just have Well, that’s the ironic thing. Even when they, they kept upping the dose to see what would help the pain. It helped low back from, you know, I used to have, I did have back surgery years before I had my car accident.

And so I’d always get kind of spasms. They took care of those spasms quite nicely. but not the CRPS symptoms at all. And it came with a host of other horrendous side effects. Um, you know, hyperhidrosis, which is over sweating in the body. And of course, having to live on laxatives. And then always worried about getting the prescription refilled when holidays would come around and they couldn’t give me, you know, refilled like two or three months in a row.

I had to go to the clinic every month. And then if I couldn’t get it, then I’d start going into withdrawals because, gosh, you know, darn it, uh, Thanksgiving came and the clinic was closed for three days in a row and I was supposed to get my script three days, you know, before. So I was at the mercy of the medications, which really weren’t helping me at all.

I’ve been off of all medications since 2015. I’m hearing many stories because the laws have changed and how doctors view prescribing that and they’re all really suffering trying to, because they were, some people would do well on opiates. I have to say that I can’t say nobody’s going to do well.

That’s between a doctor and a patient, not the legislator, I think has my personal view.  If someone’s on opioids, their family members and their caregivers should know about Narcan in case there is an unintentional overdose. And that’s really important.

How did it make you feel to be in pain 24 seven as a mom, as a wife, as a member of society?

I felt like I wasn’t part of society. I couldn’t, I had lost the use of my dominant hand. So I couldn’t be involved on the computer and all this new thing called social media. Yeah. I couldn’t participate while the rest of the world was going on. And I think the best way I can describe it is my sister, who’s very active and 10 years younger than me would come and visit me.

And I’d look at, at her car and it would have a bike hooked up on top and then some other equipment. And she was coming to see me on her way to go to a music show. And then they were going to go bike riding up the mountain. And then they were going to go to the beach. And I was like, I felt like I was 90 years old.

Being a mom in pain is very difficult. But I do have to say that my son and then my eventual stepkids have a lot more empathy and understanding and compassion because they had me in their life when I was in such terrible pain. So even though I felt like a failure as a mom, they’re, they’re all three are doing really well, but I really judged myself.

And I want to point out something about people who have chronic pain. We’re often people with really perfectionist attitude. We have to be the best.

And so what I do now is give myself grace. And if I make mistakes and if I don’t reach that high level, I wanted to, that’s all right. And that’s letting go. And that’s the mind stuff that you have to start working on when you have chronic pain.

Now, neuroplasticity is this wonderful big long word that everyone’s talking about. I discovered neuroplasticity in 2010 when my husband had a medical event. he had transient global amnesia. Now the mind through neuroplasticity is rebooting itself, getting back his memory.

Neuroplasticity is the brain’s ability at any age to rewire itself as if you’re a highway, picture a highway and you have all these freeways going in your head, but you do a sensory stimulation and you create healthier, more vibrant freeways.

And then the old ones that are transmitting the pain, when we’re talking in context of chronic pain, then they’re not going to be used. So suddenly your pain is going to be going down. And that’s how neuroplasticity needs to be applied to any good program with pain management.

But  it’s far more complex than mind over matter. It’s not a matter of saying, I’m not going to pay attention to this terrible spasm on my back. No, no. You’ve got to start retraining your body for chronic pain. You have a sensitization  going on, meaning it’s overstimulated.

And when people hear neuroplasticity, they immediately say, what’s the easy way? What do I do? And it’s a daily thing that you start giving input into your body using all your five senses. I started inventing ways for myself because I couldn’t find any a practitioner who was going to help me.

I got off all six pain related medications including Very high dose of fentanyl the Norco and all the tricyclics and plus that does the Prozac I got off of all of that I don’t have any medications that I take for pain now So  that is incredible and it does offer such amazing hope for people who are living with chronic pain So if you have someone face to face who’s at the very beginning of their journey, maybe they’ve thought that they were relegated to a life of chronic pain.

I’m going to talk to you and give you hope and seeds of hope and seeds of faith. Hope is yes. You’re going to be able to feel better and faith in yourself that you have the skills within yourself to work on yourself to feel better. You don’t have to spend a lot of money.

Time to go ahead and talk about the five senses. My first day out when I told my body, okay, this is it. You’ve got to change. Here’s what you’re going to do. I was walking my neighbor’s dog at the time. Because I needed some activity, some movement.

And besides my doctor saying to me, courage is going to get you through this. Is that my training back in the day was in what they call lifestyle medicine, which now has six pillars. Back in the day in the 1970s when I was in public health, there were only four pillars. It was physical, mental, social, and spiritual.

So I was doing movement under physical. That was my little bit of walking, which was very difficult. So that very first day I grabbed some sugar free mints.  I put them in my pocket, and I was wearing a TENS unit at that time.

So that day I changed the side of the electrodes, popped a mint in my mouth, and I would not listen to that voice in my head. And instead I said, Oh, this mint is cold. And I move it around with my time. Oh, it’s sharp now. And Oh, it’s melting. When I suck in the air through my nose, Oh, it feels cool. And that was, and then, you know, the pain would keep shouting, but I, I’d say, I don’t hear you.

And I kept, you know, responding to that. And the, the test came when I had to bend down to clean up after the dog and I put another mint in my mouth and I bent down and I didn’t feel any pain cause I was talking to myself about the mint. And then I almost forgot to throw the bag into a receptacle. I was so amazed.

And so that was the very beginning of, Oh my goodness. I can make a difference with my pain. And so, you know, the five senses, you know, visual, sensation, taste, smell, hearing, so I put special music in the next day. Every day, I kept adding every couple days another thing. But throughout the day I did other things besides just the neuroplasticity.

You cannot be grateful and angry at the same time, but it almost seems like you can’t hurt and enjoy a pleasant smell, a pleasant taste, a pleasant sound.

I teach people how to do the neuroplasticity and change their thinking patterns. It’s not magic and it’s not science fiction. It works, it’s neurochemical. When you think about things, it’s like a cat, you can have a release of neurochemicals that change your mood, which can change your perception of pain.

I talk to my clients and in the book I have something called D. O. S. E., which stands for dopamine, oxytocin,  serotonin, and endorphins.  And it’s to remind yourself throughout the day to build in things that are going to stimulate, I call them the happy chemicals. Endorphins, endorphins, endorphins.

And I call it baking your cake in the morning. Before you get out of bed in the morning, you make layers in your head. These activities are going to improve my day. So you don’t live randomly of saying, Oh, I’m in so much pain. I can’t move. You can’t, you got to get in the head of the pain.  You take charge of it.

Well, let’s talk about your book. It’s called Unwinding Pain and I love the title because to me, it paints a picture of many, many years of neural pathways that are going towards that pain and back and forth. If you have pain in your arm, that pain is getting sent to your brain and then re stimulated back and forth.

50 percent of the proceeds from the book will be donated to animal rescue organizations in the name of my neighbor’s dog Jingles. Who walked with me every day, and because of jingles, I peeled myself off the bed, even when I felt really bad because she had gotten used to me walking her,  and I knew she’d wag her tail. 50 percent of the proceeds from the book will be donated to animal rescue organizations in the name of my neighbor’s dog Jingles. Who walked with me every day, and because of jingles, I peeled myself off the bed, even when I felt really bad because she had gotten used to me walking her,  and I knew she’d wag her tail.

Up until that point in time, I had allergies to dogs. So it was a providential thing that suddenly I didn’t have allergies and my neighbor needed someone to be involved with his dog and I was the right person at the right time. So that was a blessing.

that’s cool because you didn’t have all the tools you needed if you needed to be outside walking a dog, and you didn’t have a dog, and you did not need the responsibility of caring for a dog, because cats will take care of themselves. But yet, A neighbor who had a need and you were meeting his need and the dog’s need.

I want to circle back to another important thing about, when you said when someone comes to talk to me and how can I make them feel better is that having purpose is really important. Having purpose and go beyond a diagnosis label that you don’t introduce yourself. Hi, I’m so and so with, with whatever fibromyalgia, neuromotor arthritis, lupus, that’s just part of what you’re dealing with. And help people find a purpose. And that makes all the difference in the world.  That is so important. And that is something that I teach in lifestyle medicine, to have purpose, to have social connectedness, to manage your stress and even nature.

And the reason Dr. Vickie keeps talking about lifestyle medicine is in my book, the two things that I really harp on is neuroplasticity and all the six pillars of lifestyle medicine in conjunction with  cognitive behavioral therapy and some of the other strategies that will really help you. More people are understanding about it and adopting a healthier food plan to cut down on the inflammation in their body. They’re learning about the importance of movement. And social connection is so important and sleep. I have a huge, huge chapter on sleep, which really can amplify your pain.

And even though you have chronic pain, believe me, you can learn how to sleep as you start lowering your pain levels anyway. So please remember that whether you buy my book or not, learn about sleep.

Cause it’s so essential. Like we can’t do without sleep and yet we have to educate ourself and train ourself. And so I have an episode on sleep, but I have an upcoming episode just on insomnia.  Well, I’m so excited about your book. I’m excited to share this hope with our listeners. And, you really have a step by step process that I think people who read the book can go through.

Oh, definitely. Okay. I, you, because your audio and you’re not watching this, but I’m holding up my, a long, a long paper chip or a long paper clip chain.

This is to learn a new behavior. And when I started doing my dog walking, I was starting from zero, you know, challenging my body, but I put a nail on the wall. In my kitchen. And I started putting paperclip in and added another paperclip and added another paperclip. So I got a chain and I knew by seventh paperclip, I was going to feel better.

And so I’ve used that ever since with many clients and they send me pictures. I have hundreds of pictures that come in, people’s paperclip chain. And they’ll tell me I did this new pain management behavior. Thank you for the paperclip chain, you know, idea. And so people really sparkle about that. And so I have them in different colors.

One gentleman started doing his in different colors.  Oh, and a neat thing, because he said, well, Bonnie, I have green to do this one. And then I have, you know, that’s my food. And then I have purple for my movement one. And then because I’m doing that sleep thing, how many hours a night in, but I’m making sure to down regulate my body.

So I fall asleep. So every time I remember that I give myself a paper clip. So you need,  I think  value and marking the journey. And I’ve heard it referred to as an Ebenezer stone that you pile up those stones and say, this is the place where. Things change, and I know in programs like, um, Alcoholics Anonymous or Celebrate Recovery, you get a reward token to say, you know, it’s a mile marker.

It’s a, I’ve come this far, and even if you relapse,  you can say, I did it. Yeah, I actually, I saw the clients I work with, I, they consider the work with me as, 12 step enhancement. And I know about their chips. They’re very proud. They call them the chips. And someone wrote to me, said, I just got my 25th year chip.

I mean, hallelujah, you know, so I know the term chip for that. And it is so true. And it’s a dopamine release too. You’ve achieved something, you know, it’s a wonderful celebration. Exactly.  Yeah. Celebrate success is for sure.

Well, anything else about the book or about neuroplasticity? Well, I have no financial interest in a company called Trainpain and they, Connected with me, uh, for pain coaching, and they have a targeted app for, um, neuroplasticity training, which I wish I had in 2010.

It’s a small device with wires and you tape it onto different parts of your body and you start identifying different sensations. And then there’s a, it’s a gamification where you, on your phone, you download a game and you progress through it, and what you’re doing is getting concentration in your brain to start thinking different about the neural pathways that are giving you the messages.

And then I’m at bonnielester. com if you want to go on and find out more information about me. And if you’re interested in pre ordering the book, you could go to Amazon or any of your favorite book selling places.

Plus I have an online store at unwindingpain. com. So that’s another way you could do it. And I’m on Instagram and people love my Instagram postings because I show my exotic birds and I have a famous garden and some, I’m very quirky. I make my own jewelry so that it resonates with some people. I’m at Bon Bon Lester. So follow me on Instagram.

I like it. Well,  I will be sure and put all the links in the show notes so that my listeners know how to find you. Uh, there is a lot of you were through the book and I appreciate that. And, and I’ve, I look forward to my listeners getting to follow you on Instagram and especially if anyone does have chronic pain knows that there is hope.

And to get started moving forward and, and attaching paperclips together and celebrating once in a while. Yes. It’s, it’s been great. Yeah. Well, so much for sharing your wisdom with me. This has been delightful connecting with you and chatting to your audience. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.  It was great talking to you too.

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Bonnie Lester

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